Why would it skew results? It’s a study of correlation, not causation.
I remember this meme from when the Berlin Wall fell and everyone in the DDR got access to Ubuntu.
Best use of a Mac is to sell it and buy 2 computers to put Linux on.
To fix Windows problems, reboot (and pray)
To fix Linux problems, Be root.Macs can actually be really good linux computers. It’s not always straightforward, but I’ve heard good things once it’s installed.
Anything running Linux can be good of course- just not going to easily convince me that paying double (or more) is rational.
I agree with you but you don’t pay double when you buy an old “obsolete” Mac and install Linux on it. Granted, my computer needs are very basic but my 13 yr old Mac is running better than ever after I got rid of MacOs.
Now I understand you.
I had a job developing software for datacenter machines’ hardware and software health. And the most common automatic repair that we had was escalating 1. reboot; 2. reinstall OS; 3. check hardware. I know it’s different but it was fun to see it “first-hand”.
And also, “to create Linux problems, be root” works as well.
to create Linux problems, be root
Personal attacks are against community rules.
Hey, if it’s an Intel Mac they run Linux great. I’m using a 2011 iMac running Linux Mint going on two and half years and haven’t had any issues!
(I know that more recent Macs have Asahi Linux, but I’ve not used it and cannot speak to it)
Nice.
I started out on a Coleco Adam. I could play Atari games on it.
There are dozens of us.
The first 3 computers I ever touched were an Apple II, Apple II e, and a Powemac.
Then I spent a decade in the Windows wilderness. Back and forth… Now safely home to Linux.
Maybe not a good question by itself.
That was definitely back before Apple went crazy with their whole closed ecosystem. Apple II feels a lot more like linux these days considering the amount of documentation available about the hardware. And parts aren’t locked down with serial numbers like in the iPhone…
I had a lot of fun as a kid messing with an Apple IIgs. One of the games I had was “Thexder”, and you can probably guess where I got my username.
thexder and silpheed were both ahead of their times. good memories.
Basically the same here haha
people who grew dealing with classic mac are going to flip a table reading this.
Is Discluded a word? Isn’t that Excluded?
She was about to say discarded, then change the route mid sentence.
No no, discluded is for when you exclude someone and diss them at the same time.
Got 'em!
I think it’s one of those flammable/inflammable sort of things.
I was definitely autistic, as it turns out.
I had to install PC-DOS because Windows didn’t exist.
On my family’s 386, it booted into DOS, which I wasn’t literate enough to figure out at the time, but I knew how to load MS DOS Shell, which was a text-based file GUI I could navigate to launch DOS programs, or I could run Windows 3.1 to play Castle of the Winds. (And I was aware Windows has other purely theoretical uses. It was only necessary for Castle of the Winds.)
I remember when my aunt got us a 320MB hard drive loaded with shareware games. That was life changing.
I wasn’t autistic, I was poor and switching to Linux made old hand-me-down computers work like new. It also frustrated me a lot, but that’s part of the game.
Guess i’m autistic lol. I did install Linux on my laptop when i was 12, but it didn’t last very long. The only reason i installed it is because i felt bored with the Windows UI, and distros like Ubuntu and Mint looked really interesting at the time. After i realized that i couldn’t get my EXEs to work i just went back to Windows lol.
It wasn’t until LTT made their video about using PopOS instead of Windows 11 back in 2021 that i remembered Linux even existed. I decided to give it a shot since Windows 10 had already started to freak me out for a while with their weird questions like asking if they can use my handwriting data. The rest is history. I know LTT gets a lot of flack for how they’ve handled their Linux content, and some of it is deserved, but if it wasn’t for me seeing that video i wouldn’t have given it a try.
I somewhat managed to set up my own mail server on my PC when I was 14. It was unbelievably shitty, barely functional but I did learn a great deal and only wasted about a week of my life while gaining some trauma. After I realized I can send and receive some e-mails, I immediately reinstalled windows to play counter strike with my friends as I was becoming ostracized for constantly talking about POP3 at school. That was the episode that made me understand that I do not want to do computer science.
Well, for the EXEs you just needed to use Wine.
About te UI… Well, graphical environments are independent of the distro most of the time, the only exception is when a distro has its own DE or WM hardcoded to it and won’t support anything else, as Mint, but even Cinnamon and MATE can be run on other distros
Yeah, i know these things now, but back then i just didn’t do any research and had no clue. Although i do remember trying wine, but i couldn’t get any games to work. I’m not sure if that was me being incompetent, or wine not being as good back then, probably a combination of both lol. This was like back in 2010 or something.
WINE was awful back then. It’s still not great. Bottles makes it bearable and of course Proton has entirely changed the game for gaming.
I’ve been into Linux on and off since around 2006… it was always cool, but kind of a pain in the ass to use. Until sometime around 2015-2020 or so we hit an inflection point and now linux is ready for primetime in a way it wasn’t before. Like when I first installed linux in 2006 it was like “yep… this sure is volunteer-made software (derogatory).” But it’s much better than it was.
Well, that’s fair.
As for Wine, I only managed to make Warcraft III to work, but not Minecraft or any other game. Wine needed so much tweaking back then.
Around the same time also.
At 12 I was not so interested in the features and mechanics of computers and OSs as to even have an opinion on the Windows UI, let alone consider other options. I was using AOL chat rooms and MSN Messenger, watching stupid flash videos on Newgrounds, and playing The Sims and Mech fighting games. I was in college studying Computer Science before I even gave a shit, and didn’t actually install Linux on my PC until I was in my mid 20s. So, from my perspective, you’re still an outlier.
Well when i talked about the UI it was honestly just very superficial. In a way of “oh i’m bored of this, but this other thing looks much different.” Basically monkey brain shit. It’s funny cause while i ended up going back to windows to be able to play games, my laptop was just a dual core celeron that could barely play anything anyway. I remember it often overheating and shutting down while i was playing sims 3 lol.
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I have full time Linux users on my team. I fix their code all day and go home to use all 3 os’s.
Using Linux means you like tinkering, not that your smarter or more capable.
I’m an Ubuntu user and don’t give a shit about tinkering or being smart. I just like that it’s faster than Microsoft and isn’t Microsoft. Also when windows needs to update it’s a whole thing. Fuck a whole thing. Apple products are also stupid.
In my case, I used Linux because I didn’t like being spied on. I also didn’t like ads and I hated my settings being reverted after Windows updates. Fuck Windows. It’s an OS that doesn’t understand consent.
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Liking to tinker things is somewhat correlated to being more capable or even smarter, though; I mean, you can’t tinker if you’re not capable and/or don’t know how to do it.
With LLMs you can theoretically tinker, but in my experience, 90% of the output will be hallucinated.
Can you fix a carb? Or replace your fuel injector? What about build a small table for your home? Run a Cnc? Maybe you don’t tinker enough then.
Your hobby makes you more capable in your hobby.
And your take and experience on llm’s is trash. The models are excellent coders and simply need context. There are only a few specific domains where they don’t produce excellent code. They aren’t going away in tech. There will be a middle ground where they are used.
I am a full time Linux user and nobody fixes my code ever, can you explain this?
Is this sarcasm? God damn I was a bit riled.
In the case that I’m actually not understanding your confusion, I’m a Staff engineer for 15 or so devs. Everyone makes mistakes (myself included) and everyone is fluent on nix systems.
But I’m running Colima and podman on osx because it’s a vastly easier os to use in a work environment. I’d choose windows + wsl over native desktop nix. And it has nothing to do with my capabilities.
I’m sure sometimes your code needs fixing.
But this whole thread is a bait. zzzzzzz
The question the OOP is getting at isn’t about being smarter or more capable. It’s about knowing how to probem solve, which is itself about feeling like it’s ok to tinker.
I’ve been using linus for like 27 years or so, but I don’t think I’ve been tinkering with my desktop for 20 years. Tinkering with my servers of course.
I’ve been using linus for like 27 years or so
New honeypot just dropped?!
Has he been using Finnish or Canadian Linus?
Do you have ethical stock of the canadian one? Or is it all day old?
Yes :DG<
Damn! I wanted to know what the hypothesis was.
Apple users are dumb. Or some other bs
“Windows sucks so much it forces you to learn how stuff works”
I’ll concede that Windows’ shittiness taught me some things, but I don’t think it actually taught me much that was useful because of how opaque and poorly designed it was. Like, yeah I could edit registry keys and I know what A:\ and C:\ were, but that stuff doesn’t mean shit outside of Windows. It was mainly the abstraction gained by moving away from Windows that actually taught me stuff.
Not dumb, tech illiterate. Some of the smartest people I know are completely tech illiterate, especially when it comes to tasks that don’t involve using a web browser.
As a computer scientist and UX designer, I think people in the tech sector are way too hard on users for not understanding the tech they’re using. Tech illiteracy is often a side-effect of good UX design. You don’t need to know how something works if using it is intuitive.
Windows has terrible UX, and Apple’s is a lot better, so it makes sense that Apple users wouldn’t need to get into the details of how their device works as much. That said, I have no love for Apple. I still think their UX is pretty bad, even while admitting that it’s more or less the best that’s currently out there.
On the other side of things, a bunch of the most tech literate programmers I know use Apple computers because it’s basically commercial linux that lets you use adobe products and such.
That is true. The biggest pain point for me switching to Linux was losing Adobe’s suite of software.
Personally I just wish there was an OS that let you have control over your devices, freedom to customize things, and a consistently clean UX. Sadly the corporate world will never allow that, so…you win some you lose some.
My biggest gripe with Apple for coding is the constant mixup of the Command and Control keys when I’m switching between my work laptop and my PC.
Well, that’s an actual fact so…
I almost never seen Macs irl growing up, it was very much Windows country where I live. So obviously when I asked for a computer as a kid it came with Windows, in my case Vista…
Only in the last maybe 8? years I started seeing people who used Macs irl and it tends to be younger people who only have a Macbook for online school stuff.
Also yes I’m the only Linux desktop user I know, Even the servers in every office I’ve worked in have been Windows.
Windows vista. Man that’s a memory.
And not a good one.
I started on a Commodore 64.
VIC-20 here. That 3K of RAM didn’t last long when programming. Dad saw I was hitting the wall and got me a 64.
Still got my Vic 20 in a closet. The video died somehow, but it’s still alive “in there”; when it died, I could still enter commands (blindly) to read the tape, for example, and see its effect, so if I ever just fix the video, maybe it’ll run again someday.
Same, with two caveats: I used BBC Micros at school before getting a home computer and did some BASIC on those so that might count as my “start”. And second, my C64 was a C64C. MOS Technology 65xx family FTW though.
I think my first was an Amiga.
The school had macs eventually for our computer lab. Then at some point we had both a windows machine and then an iMac. I ended up with a windows laptop around 11 and building my own windows pc just a few years later in early high school.
That’s pretty neat-o!
