You are not required to judge the value of work based on its output. While some types of work may produce output that is relatively more beneficial to society than is other work, a society can choose to believe that the value of the work lies in the effort rather than the output. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. This is the core tenet of Marxism. It’s entirely a matter of which paradigm you choose to accept. There is no right answer to this question, only reflections of what you value.
i mean i really believe that in general, but some people really do provide unique services. it’s hard to reconcile the two concepts especially because people are allowed their contradictions so whatever
I think if you decouple capital and earning from skill this “more or less valuable” thing sorts itself out. If I’m hungry, I’d rather have a farmer and a chef around. If I sprain my ankle, I’d rather have a doctor and a PT around. My needs of the moment are not what I always need. My abilities at this moment, are not what my abilities always will be. for example, if I sprain my ankle, I probably can’t help the farmer bring in the cattle, but I could help the doctor by setting up the autoclave for surgical tools.
I also feel like if my ability have a home and live in a community and not starve were separated from how my time is spent, I would get to choose both less specialized things and I would probably get to cycle through different things (and prevent burnout). I would adore a schedule that lets me do significant physical labor for 2-4 hours in the morning, child care 2 days a week, geriatric health care 2 days a week, barista another day or two, and creative endeavors the rest of the time. That’s not really a job that can or does exist these days and if I tried to cobble it together from part time work, lean staffing would never let it be regular enough to manage all of them without flaking out on someone.
Well, vibe coding isn’t working. That’s just letting the machine think for you.
However, even non specialized work is essential. Burger flippers, street cleaners, bus drivers, librarians… They may not have a career as long and specialized as a doctor’s, but they’re still essential people, and their work should be valued.
Librarian is a job requiring a masters degree. Library clerks don’t need formal training however. Bus drivers also require a CDL which I would argue also makes it skilled labor. I wouldn’t be surprised if street cleaners also need one.
But yes, many jobs are essential for our society that don’t require certifications, education, or formal training. Though I will say that some jobs are more necessary than others. There are both bullshit jobs and jobs where while the labor is real, the benefits of it to society are less than the value produced by it.
I think work that requires you to study and learn and experience for ages should be paid higher than work you can do without prior experience or know-how.
This is my stance. If you’re working full time you should get a living wage. If you’ve got more experience or have learned more specialized skills then you should get more on top of that baseline living wage. I think 3x is less than what I would set the cap as but when I say that I’m thinking of people with highly specific technical skills or medical professionals, not CEOs. 3x is a fine cap for them.
Even Marx knew that’s just not true at all. And I’m not even talking about the usual ‘garbage collector vs doctor’ bullshit.
I’m talking fastfood worker vs cafeteria worker, where one is reheating some chemical wastes to poison people for corporate gains; whereas the other is serving cheap and nutritious food for his local community.
No work is less valuable than others.
all work is equal
It isn’t.
What work isn’t equal to others?
Sweeping the floor is not equal to doing a heart transplant, stop getting lost in platitudes and get a grip.
It is. It’s TIME.
One hour of your life isn’t more precious than one hour of mine.
You are not required to judge the value of work based on its output. While some types of work may produce output that is relatively more beneficial to society than is other work, a society can choose to believe that the value of the work lies in the effort rather than the output. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. This is the core tenet of Marxism. It’s entirely a matter of which paradigm you choose to accept. There is no right answer to this question, only reflections of what you value.
i mean i really believe that in general, but some people really do provide unique services. it’s hard to reconcile the two concepts especially because people are allowed their contradictions so whatever
I think if you decouple capital and earning from skill this “more or less valuable” thing sorts itself out. If I’m hungry, I’d rather have a farmer and a chef around. If I sprain my ankle, I’d rather have a doctor and a PT around. My needs of the moment are not what I always need. My abilities at this moment, are not what my abilities always will be. for example, if I sprain my ankle, I probably can’t help the farmer bring in the cattle, but I could help the doctor by setting up the autoclave for surgical tools.
I also feel like if my ability have a home and live in a community and not starve were separated from how my time is spent, I would get to choose both less specialized things and I would probably get to cycle through different things (and prevent burnout). I would adore a schedule that lets me do significant physical labor for 2-4 hours in the morning, child care 2 days a week, geriatric health care 2 days a week, barista another day or two, and creative endeavors the rest of the time. That’s not really a job that can or does exist these days and if I tried to cobble it together from part time work, lean staffing would never let it be regular enough to manage all of them without flaking out on someone.
I show the same respect to any workers, but, some work is much less specialized.
I wouldn’t say a vibe coder is as valuable as a software developer as an example
Also, influencers… Generally not useful at all, and are just trying to score freebies…
I consider influencers as part of the advertisement industry.
Well, vibe coding isn’t working. That’s just letting the machine think for you.
However, even non specialized work is essential. Burger flippers, street cleaners, bus drivers, librarians… They may not have a career as long and specialized as a doctor’s, but they’re still essential people, and their work should be valued.
Librarian is a job requiring a masters degree. Library clerks don’t need formal training however. Bus drivers also require a CDL which I would argue also makes it skilled labor. I wouldn’t be surprised if street cleaners also need one.
But yes, many jobs are essential for our society that don’t require certifications, education, or formal training. Though I will say that some jobs are more necessary than others. There are both bullshit jobs and jobs where while the labor is real, the benefits of it to society are less than the value produced by it.
I think work that requires you to study and learn and experience for ages should be paid higher than work you can do without prior experience or know-how.
But you know, reasonably higher. Like 3x at most.
This is my stance. If you’re working full time you should get a living wage. If you’ve got more experience or have learned more specialized skills then you should get more on top of that baseline living wage. I think 3x is less than what I would set the cap as but when I say that I’m thinking of people with highly specific technical skills or medical professionals, not CEOs. 3x is a fine cap for them.
I don’t care much about pay differences, as long as everybody can afford to live comfortably and nobody can afford to buy politicians.
Fair enough
Even Marx knew that’s just not true at all. And I’m not even talking about the usual ‘garbage collector vs doctor’ bullshit.
I’m talking fastfood worker vs cafeteria worker, where one is reheating some chemical wastes to poison people for corporate gains; whereas the other is serving cheap and nutritious food for his local community.
I think both of those examples are wild generalizations.
Not as much as the original claim, so I’m fine with that
Hell yeah! Guard labor is real labor! FOP unions are real unions! Solidarity with the guys who tear gas you!