Fucking traitorous scum
they’re proud of the hurdles they’ve put in the way of human contributors but also let swarms of clankers right in
i’m so depressed
So long Linux. You hung in there just to sell out in the end. This is far worse.
Torvalds’s first publicly released chatbot code was in January this year, when he vibe-coded a project in Python because he didn’t know enough Python. The programming language kids learn in high school. The guy who runs the kernel couldn’t get his head around Python.
I’m pissed at the AI companies for all kinds of things like hiking computer parts prices and the impending destruction of the economy when the
lieshype dies. But this is a weak ass argument.The guy who created the Linux kernel and git can absolutely get his head around Python. He’s just allocating his time and energy toward kernel development rather than learning Python and rightly so. Besides, maybe he just hates the language. I know I do, but I started with Perl, so that shaped the way I like to work.
He could get his head around python if he wanted to, that statement is laughable.
because he didn’t know enough Python. The programming language kids learn in high school. The guy who runs the kernel couldn’t get his head around Python.
This is such an ignorant thing to say. Python syntax is indeed simple and is taught in high schools, but neither means learning to program in Python is easy or doesn’t take a lot of time.
But learning python is easy and takes no time for an experienced dev. The language is just shite.
I know I do, but I started with perl
Throwing rocks from a glass house I see ;)
Perl has scope delimiters, so a sturdy glass house.
I genuinely love the idea of the $1 after a match. It feels so natural in perl! So many things are text matching.
But! But! But!! Those $ variables are dynamic scoped! If you call a method and it matches stuff you lose the variables!
I’ll bet there is a way around it. But it made me so sad.
Yes, regex handling in Perl is the smoothest I have ever seen, and it matched the first description I heard of perl as “the best tool for text processing”. I have done big things with that.
Those $ variables are dynamic scoped! If you call a method and it matches stuff you lose the variables!
My match scopes typically looked like so:
if ($inString =~ /^([ \t]+)(.*)$/) { my $indent = $1; # store first match my $remainder = $2; # store second match # do stuff }(not tested, just edited by hand to anonymise)
I think it came up more like
if ($inString =~ /^([ \t]+)(.*)$/ && has_a_cow($2)) {For me. I dunno. I was never good at perl. I just wanted to hack something together.
I did bigger parsing tools in perl, so I often matched a lot of expressions and needed them all in variables. Not only to save the $N variables, but also for code readability, I would then store the matches in proper variable names
perl accepts perlin noise as valid perl programs so scope delimiters don’t mean much.
So does Python /s
Just create a new file or a top level function
except that it breaks my debugging strategy, where I left-align debug code so I can easily spot it and remove it later.
Sure. But that’s like an English literature scholar deciding they want to write a pamphlet, but in French, despite knowing very little French – so instead of learning French, or just writing the pamphlet in English, or asking someone who knows French to translate…they use AI to write the thing. That’s really stupid.
He’s just allocating his time and energy toward kernel development
Then he should have stuck to his lane.
Absolutely. If you don’t have time to do anything else, just fucking stay away from it. Don’t fucking pretend to contribute to an area, while in reality you’re just polluting it and destroying the natural environment at the same time.
I’ll take a neutral source to read this, because the headline suggests this article is at the very least over hyping and at worst plain lying
Been a bit of a bother trying to find the actual info and not a rage piece that makes FOX News look sane. And I don’t touch that agency with an 11ft pole.
From what I remember reading, Linus uses LLMs to help during bug hunting - the second pair of eyes. This is actually a useful part of the AI models - they may be awful at code writing, but they do seem to have some capability when looking over code as a first line proofer. That is, it’s useful for you to get a direction as to where to look further with issues.
As for the Assisted-By tag being removed, it was a matter that no one was really using it, making it functionally useless.
The most disappointing aspect of using AI on linux, to me, is that it sort of implies linux is now more comfortable with the “move fast and break things” -mindset, now caring more about “efficiency” and “speed” rather than integrity and quality.
That’s really sad actually, i didn’t think of that.
I only recently installed Linux for the first time on my HTPC last year and it was flawless at first. Last couple months I’ve noticed a handful of bugs and system hangs that never happened before. Anecdotal, I know, but it worries me as a novice. I built my home server on this machine specifically to avoid microslop…
Last couple months I’ve noticed a handful of bugs and system hangs that never happened before.
I get random blackscreens with my OcuLink-connected Radeon GPU on the latest kernels…anecdotal evidence, too, but my slopcode senses are tingling. It worked really well on 6.x kernels last year.
Software will probably get worse, but very slowly. One little stab at a time until it becomes very noticeable.
I find this annoying where every regression now gets associated with “AI slop”. I agree that genuine slop is bad. But Radeon regressions were pretty damn common pre-AI-slop too. My 6600M, my Vega iGPU and others all had regressions. And I’ve seen this pattern with everything else lately too, where even bugs that have existed for over a decade are associated with LLMs. Pointing things out specifically is important in these scenarios IMO. “This LLM-generated and claimed-to-be-human-reviewed patch caused this regression.” That’s much more useful than “slopcode senses” that people seem to be triggering in projects that have existed for so long. (I do get where you’re coming from though…)
Open source is all about moving fast. Much, much more innovations happen in the oss space than in proprietary land.
Linux is a serious project.
As such, it has serious quality control.
Torvals already allowed AI-helped commits. And Linux didn’t break over it.
Bad pull requests rutinely get thrown out. And unfortunately for thode categorically against AI as a thing that exists, AI use doesn’t automatically make every PR bad. In the right hands it’s a great tool with a lot of potential.
And if Torvalds feels Linux is a project too big to be brought down by an onslaught of bad PRs made by wannabe script kiddies, so be it.
If that does become a crippling problem, the policy can be undone as easily as it was made. If not, competent contributors are free to use AI responsibly as a tool and not a magic wand.
A hard “no AI anywhere in any way, shape or form” stance is like the ostrich digging its head into the ground. Not trying a softer approach beforehand which allows responsible use (may also mean using approved environmentally friendly setups and open-weight models) is a bad idea for everyone involved.
Technology moves forward and we as individuals can choose to move with it or not. That being said, the foss moral imperative is: democratize any tech you can. This is especially true of when it’s a dangerous technology, which LLM-powered chatbots are.
If you instead move fast to burrow your head like an ostrich and deny the reality of the predator growing right beside you, the little lion cub that play hunted you just a while ago may very well soon grow into the lion that will devour you whole.
Linus is a traitor to Open Source community. Using and promoting a tool created by stealing the works of thousands of developers, artists etc. He might be a good programmer but he is a fucking douchebag.
Even worse is, that he’s inadequately helping capital, including Microsoft, in stripping the common man of their own computing, to rent it back to them.
Its really sad, Linus used to be a champion of open source and now hes doing his best to ruin it.
You either die a hero…
Or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain
Yes, that is the second half of the quote Op didn’t include. American?
What does being snarky at them achieve here? Why would it be bad, to write the continuation to that saying? Maybe someone now learned it. If it annoys you, just move on, no need to bring more negativity into the world.
I’ll start with fuck AI, but it does feel like most of the people commenting here only know about coding and AI from stories around a campfire.
A good developer will consider the tools and choose the ones that are beneficial. It’s crazy that people think somebody like Linus will suddenly be useless because of AI.
If you take all of the civilization level atrocities being committed constantly by ai companies and their fascist supporters…eh maybe?
I think
moredevelopers and engineers need to work on their busted ass moral compasses.Developers and engineers aren’t fans of AI. It’s our stolen work being used to try and surpress our wages & replace our trade.
Unfortunately, there’s enough engineers going along with it and supporting it for various reasons that I’m terrified that the turbulence and volatility in our industry has only truly just begun.
When part of the bubble pops and what’s left of vc cash dries up, there’s going to be a great convenient consolidation around government and military applications just in time for global conflict to give it more fuel and another big downward shake.
Also need to unionize!
Software engineer writing code for a living, day in, day out for over a decade. I’m completely self taught and never went to uni, and got my first role at 20, if that means anything. I trust nothing from Claude. We just had a “write no code have claude complete in automode”. Nope. It’s horrible. We even had it write the jira stories. Complete shit.
And yet, from experience as a software dev currently on job hunt because his company is switching mostly only AI developing, that is not what companies are doing and not what a lot of devs seem to be doing. They’ll vibe code and see it as done
In the near future (and I suspect it’s quite sooner than we thought) all those companies’ codebase will turn into mostly slopcode that no one there will have enough knowledge about it. They will eventually hit a timeline where only AI agents could still do a thing about it and that will be a huge crash for them. It’s suppose to be a tool, they act like it’s everything they need. Maybe we’ll even see that their software is changing inconsistently in every major update because they have to vibe-code it from scratch every time.
Oh no, didn’t you see? Ai agents are gonna start self replicating on smart devices everywhere and become their own botnet!
It’s kind of incredible to me that the dude that started this project would be so quick to allow it to become slopped.
I’m forced to use LLMs at work myself, but even I have projects that I’m unwilling to let them touch, and I’m talking about a personal text editor for fuck’s sake, not something I’ve spent my whole life building and attached my name to.
So many people have become shameless garbage.
This exactly! I don’t understand how one would let an LLM touch their passion projects. I don’t mind someone quickly slopping together a little python script for something, but I would never let it touch my babies. It’d be like buying a self-assembling lego set. Sure the end result is the same, but is the end result why someone buys a lego set?
Linus on the Linux kernel (after writing a single python script w/ an LLM):
No one should be surprised.
Man’s got a massive ego problem, and has done for years. Of course he’d think his AI code is good.
Thanks, I thought I was in a minority thinking he is losing his marbles, but the upvotes you got say there’s more people realizing that.
he’d think his AI code is god.
Give it time.
No need. The Ppl behind GBT are litterly lobbying the pope to recognize their AI has a soul
That I know that’s really a thing makes me want to have a physical tantrum over how stupid and frustrating it is
Only TempleOS is safe now
What about BeOS?
Praise him*.
*Terry A. Davis
I have lost my faith in Torvalds when he wrote this:
This is NOT some kind of “social warrior” project, never has been, and never will be.
Taking bets now, how long until we get a Torvalds rant about too many brown people in the kernel developer community?
“When did my political project become so political?”
- Person who doesn’t realize that literally everything is politicalHow long until he monetizes it in the biggest bait and switch attempt FOSS has ever seen?
Big corporations are already the ones paying his salaries, the biggest contributors to the Linux foundation, they have been steering it for a long time to focus on the server needs of Linux. I guess the Linux foundation stance on ai is there to guarantee the flow of money from those corporations doesn’t dry-up.
Fuck I don’t want to see that 😭
Yeah, that hurt… It’s so easy to just NOT say that shit
Linux maintainers stand on this is basically : our ai generate slop is good but yours is questionable
At what point should we start considering that the kernel maintainers and developers don’t even understand what they are adding to the project ??
What I see in ai projects these days is huge commit size changes many files at once, where the people behind those commit don’t have a single clue what is being added or changed.
This article seems biased given how emotional it is. It could be entirely factually correct yet still misrepresent the situation. For example, there’s no mention of the patch criteria or review procedure, which is such an important part of fairly covering this topic that omitting it is actively malicious.
I’ll be waiting for fair coverage of the situation from a reputable news source, not a website whose sole purpose is to make AI and its users look bad.
Thank you, @destructdisc@lemmy.world ! ^^
I read it yesterday, but did’t publish here considering someone else did already. Yet, apparently… you just did!
This is all… such a… dear… sorrow… no words may express it…
I’ve been in Linux for around 20 years now…
And this is freaking f… awful to see…The thing is that these projects, as Linux, Aircrack, cryptography, exploits I’ve been into for many years… created by actual developers who learned, who managed… who achieved… had been inspiring me to also learn, to discover, to achieve…
Now? It starts to mean nothing.
Now, there’s someone lazy who “achieved” something being lucky enough for their stupid prompt for a model to generate a desired output.It’s worth nothing. It’s worthless.
The fact that once hackers/effortful/artists/people, now don’t learn, don’t discover, don’t communicate, don’t share, don’t publish, don’t think for fudge sake… with their head/mind on their shoulders atrophying… don’t achieve, don’t deserve their name mentioned since they didn’t write it but their/vendor’s models did…
This AI infestation? This ruins all of it, it overwrites the Git/human history with actual ingenious people leaving behind…
Devaluing everything…Such a sorrowful time to live… and see/feel of this… with so many indifferent and careless people… who just need a result without any understanding and realization how it actually works or was derived…
I cannot still wrap that around my mind properly…
I try to think less about the history being obliterated, people getting forgotten, ingenious ideas devalued…Also note that the python visualizer tool has been basically written by vibe-coding. I know more about analog filters – and that’s not saying much…
Yet, there’s also “copyright”:
- https://github.com/torvalds/AudioNoise/blob/main/LICENSEHow is that a copyright if this project was created by a machine/algorithm, not him?
How is that inhuman output worth a copyright that is supposed to be for humans only?Just to clarify, I appreciate Linux and the Community for the ineffably magnificent history… the operating system, the freaking marvelous effort and love within all it… I’ve been literally living in Linux for decades or so, I adore working with Linux… being a developer in security and finance systems…
It’s just… it’s just… so much gets devalued and ruined… and faster, faster, faster!
Where the heck are we all so hurry at? Hello?! Anyone?!You don’t even get time to live this life already, and now with the history getting rewritten on our eyes, code written with no names on it, music slopped, “slop-articles” published, “artworks” set in video-games… everything with no soul no effort in it, nameless…
In the end, we do we. I’ve been making my life with the beliefs in the precious value of achievements of human lives, be it code, algorithm, music, artwork, art, human experience…
Creating exploits, findings holes, adjusting security, break unbreakable etc. these are all achievements and you live with them.
You then could remember, after 10 years or more, that You achieved it. It would give you strength to continue living, a purpose.It’s been giving me the purpose to continue living, too…
There are still Developers and Communities who still apply warmth to my heart… the Hope…
- NetBSD may have found a new role: The AI-free FOSS OS
Code generated by a large language model or similar technology, such as GitHub/Microsoft’s Copilot, OpenAI’s ChatGPT, or Facebook/Meta’s Code Llama, is presumed to be tainted code, and must not be committed without prior written approval by core.
Source: https://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html
Artists as the following video author though still give warmth to the heart… the dear hope… which is heartfelt, dear Soulfelt appreciated…
- https://youtu.be/xXmYX88s_7w (The Suno Reddit Page is Just Sad…)
Thank you… very much… dear Developers, Artists, People… who still believe in the history, purpose, attitude, humane Art, the love…
Please do stay safe… and I wish you success, stability, and peace…We inherit the earth, we inherit the war.
~ Inherit the Earth - Silent Planettime to post this again:
a worthwhile read in regards to what pushing AI does to a contributor and a community:
https://blog.fallible.net/it-breaks-a-village/Well said. I’m saving this comment for later.
