That was disturbing news to Angelica Jadunandan, who moved to New York from Florida with her two young daughters three years ago. Her older daughter, who is eight, is transgender, and Angelica wanted to move them to a safe blue state—somewhere her family’s medical care would not be called into question. New York is a self-declared “sanctuary state” for trans people. It seemed like a good option.
All gender affirming care that is or has been provided to minors at scale is reversible. The standard for providing gender affirming care to minors is puberty blockers and social transition, never anything permanent like surgery. Personally, I don’t see any cause for concern about potential harm to minors from providing gender affirming care, but I do see the harm that is done to them when that care is denied and find it far more concerning given that a common result of that harm is the most permanent and irreversible outcome possible, suicide.
That’s good to know, thank you. It makes the angle pretty different.
An integral part of transgender care is also therapeutic evaluation and discussion with minors and parents to thoroughly understand what is needed at specific stages of the minor’s development.
The issue of parents/schools “promoting” kids to be a different gender is so insanely overblown. There isn’t any documented case of an adult coming forward to claim that they received gender altering medical intervention as a minor when they shouldn’t have.
Just wait. It’ll be the cool thing for youth pastors to claim soon. Like all the ones that claim they were strung out giving handies in truck stop bathrooms when Jesus called them.
“I’ve been there. I was told it would be great to be trans. They offered me money and candy. Then dressed me in girls clothes and did surgery on me in math class. Then Jesus came to me and said ‘No more’”.
Before 5 years later they complete the cycle by coming back out and not getting why the community can’t trust them or welcome them back
I believe you, I don’t think there is malice here at all.
You should probably edit your comment to include this information since somebody might see the misinformation in your original comment and might not see this comment correcting it
I’ll add a clarifier at the end but I didn’t specifically reference procedures, so I’ll probably leave the “like this” part unless that’s considered deceptive in some way?
You might find a lecture bio a professor from Stanford, named Robert Sapolsky, entitled ‘Neuro-biologu of trans-sexuality’ interesting.
I had been a little while since I watched it, but the thing that stands out in my memory is:
When you look at the differences between biologically male brains, and biologically female brains, there is this part that has nodes (I don’t remember exactly, sorry, nouns are not my forte) and they are always one size in male brains, and a different size in female brains.
In trans-sexual brains, these little nodes are the size of the nodes in the brain of their believed gender, not their biological gender.
People with similar experiences as a child certainly exist, and their and your experiences are valid, but there are many documented and studied experience that are different. Something like your experience, I would hope would be identified by the parents.
Thanks for the response. People are being pretty evil to me here. I appreciate your thoughtful, detailed response a lot.
Question, I know of a kid in my kids friend circle. She has been on puberty blockers and is starting to take estrogen. She is 16. I would have thought that starting to take estrogen wouldn’t be truely reversible. But I really don’t know much about it. Can a person theoretically stop the estrogen and the puberty blockers and go through a sort of normal male puberty?
The estrogen isn’t reversible but testosterone would still work. In short, if she were to detransition she would have a feminine bone structure, breasts, and would likely be a bit smaller, but should otherwise develop fine.
The bigger thing is that at 16 you’re really balancing risks here. Detransition of a 16 year old who’d been on puberty blockers is very rare. Hitting 18 without any puberty is socially isolating and developmentally awkward. And going through the wrong puberty has permanent effects too as well as feeling like some sort of body horror. A choice has to be made and the person who is nearly an adult and has to experience the consequences is the one most likely to get it right, especially when they’ve thoroughly discussed it with doctors and therapists.
You mention hitting 18 without any puberty. What does that actually look like. I assume a person of any gender would just be shorter in general, but I don’t even know if that is true. For female, there would be no breasts, but I assume one could wear something that would make it look like there were. That doesn’t cover person to person contact, but it at least covers some phsyical appearance. Of course word would get around at school, but at 18 that would likely end. But there must be more. I am just not sure what puberty blockers would prevent that would be socially obvious, and I am curious.
She’d have a childlike fat distribution. Her bones may fuse in an androgynous way. She’d not develop sexual desires. Her muscle structure would remain childlike. She’d be slower to adult bone density.
Hell, all the mental and emotional changes that come with puberty at 16 she’ll be pretty late to all of that, but having to wait to 18 is taking two more years from it. Those are two years hanging out with peers and rebelling against parents. Of teenage angst. Of early dating at an age where it’s understood to probably go nowhere so you can make mistakes. It’s also two years of her body still feeling wrong, of clothes not fitting right, of not seeing the face she’s already jumped through so many hoops in pursuit of. It’s the entire lived experience of being 16 and not allowed to go through puberty for two more years unless you take the one you really don’t want.
For someone who’s uncertain it may very well be a better decision than picking a puberty. But for someone who is certain and whose doctors believe seriously understands the choices being made it should be her choice
First, just want to say I am not a supporter of banning much of anything medically. Medical stuff is nearly always a case by case basis. I am just looking to better understand the subject in general, and to better understand the impact these choice may have made on my kids friend.
Interesting points about muscle and bone. Being an engineer that is interesting to me, and I hadn’t thought about it. The fuse part is odd. Anymore info on that? Is bone fusing normally part of puberty or something?
And on the same front, I know that puberty is associated with gaining maturity related to changes in the brain. Do puberty blockers supress any brain development? Doesn’t seem like it does, but I am not sure how it doesn’t, and my sample size is 1.
The emotional stuff is rough. Everyone is different. Some have a supportive circle of friends and family, some don’t. That said, high school is rough all around. And kids are downright mean as they learn not to be. I would think that maybe 18 would be easier in some ways since most people have less interactions with people they would rather avoid once they are out of school. And in many workplaces at least some of the people are more mature and professional. But of course not going through any puberty at all will still generate ridicule in HS. So probably another case by case kind of thing. Also, random side observation. The kids seem to be doing less dating and such in HS than when I went. My sample size is only like 10, but it is consistent across all 10. When I went through, dating started in 7th grade. From the kids I have talked to, it stays pretty thin until 12th and sometimes 11th grade. Which I found pretty odd. That said, dating as a trans kid in high school seems like it would be super challenging and probably even more dangerous as a trans women. The boys have even less self control then men. So wouldn’t not having the desire be almost safer? And by the way, all your other emotional points are great points. Just like I said, I am curious, not trying to challenge with my questions.
Ah ok, sorry to take it wrongly, it can be hard to tell the difference between “why (curious)” and “why (change my mind)”, especially on topics like this.
Bones fusing is a part of adolescence. And apparently I was wrong, puberty blockers do prevent it. Bone fusing is part of pubescent growth spurts and bone changes, but different bones fuse at different ages. I started hormones at 20 and caught a little bit of shifting of my hip bones because they’re among the last to fuse.
And yeah I’ve got no idea if it impacts brain development. Unfortunately at this point it’s become hard to find reliable evidence because there’s a huge campaign against them. All I know is that the expert organizations (such as the American Academy of Pediatrics) seem to believe it to be worth any potential risks.
And speaking as someone who went through puberty for the second time in college, just because your brain is more developed doesn’t mean you act like it while you’re having big pubescent emotions lol. I’d get into the same stupid fights with my mom I had years earlier, except worse because mom was hormonal too that time.
And the high schoolers basically will all know. Speaking as a former high schooler, something like that a kid is trans is going to be known through the rumor mill, just like how we knew multiple closeted gay kids in my day. And to be blunt, I don’t think either scenario is going to spare this girl the risks of sexual violence, but that’s a personal suspicion.
If she’s attracted to men (she most likely will be, trans people seem to be about equally likely to be straight, gay, or bi) she’s probably never going to have it easy dating them, though. And while yeah teenage boys can be worse, a 16 year old also has a lot less free reign in what kind of mistakes they can make than an 18 year old. At 18 she could go on tinder or to a college party with full force of “this is my first time being horny”. Hopefully her parents and such have given her the “dating men will be more dangerous for you than for cis women” talk.
And for how to protect her in this regard the best thing imo is a friend group that’s protective of her. It feels simple to say, but if the boys in her school know that starting shit with her or hurting her will cause problems with other people, they’ll be less likely to do it, and more likely to stop after facing pushback.
I also think it’s worth saying here, that as various citizens not involved and for the government the question isn’t “what is the right choice”, but rather whether or not we should restrict the freedom of bodily autonomy for the teenager and the freedom of medical professionals to do what they believe is best for their patients. The neutral option is to not interfere in someone else’s medical choices.