All they have to keep saying is that Russia is an evil Nazi regime
Are you saying they are not?
Turn Europe’s economy into a war economy, start conscription, start a Manhattan project to intercept nuclear warheads and build a billion killer drones to conquer Russia.
Absolutely no one in Europe wants to conquer Russia. We just want to be left the fuck alone from Russian Nazis interfering in our democracy and to leave our neighbours alone.
And the only one twisting historical facts are you, saying the Maidan revolution was a western coup instead of Ukrainians choosing to oust a Russian puppet. This wasn’t some fringe group taking power, it was supported by the majority of Ukrainians.
2019, 5 years later. But the facts about the funding and NED operations remain the facts. The organizer of the Maidan protests did receive funding and training from the CIA/NED. This does not erase what happened, or how it happened.
Further, the near 50/50 split is very much divided between east and west Ukraine, with the east being more Russian language speaking and aligned. There was serious resistance to this “realignment”. And even western media reported about the nazi problem and violence coming from far right mobs.
Did Russia meddle, contribute to the civil war and illegally invade? Yeah. But this one sided narrative about the history, and the characterization of Russia as some comically evil nazi regime is just nonsense. The CIA/NED openly bragged about their operation that ended with this war.
Again, I’m not pro Russia. But I do understand they have legitimate security concerns. And expanding NATO to Ukraine was warmongering. Because you do not need to be pro Russia to say “If you do X, this actor will react with Y which is very bad. So do not do X”.
characterization of Russia as some comically evil nazi regime is just nonsense.
You mean the same regime that has kidnapped thousands of Ukrainian children? The same regime that has massacred civilians in occupied Ukrainian territories? The same regime that threatens the world with Nukes every so often? You mean the same regime that poisoned UK citizens with novichok? The regime that is trying to end Democracy in Europe? The one that is murdering any opposition to its rule?
Add to this the rampant ultra nationalism and xenophobia how can you not characterise the Russian regime as fascist?
And expanding NATO to Ukraine was warmongering.
Ukraine is not part of NATO, so what does that mean? And even if Ukraine joined, is Ukraine not a sovereign country that can decide this themselves? Calling that warmongering is what makes this whole take disingenuous and pro Russia, because it only serves Russian fascism and imperialism.
Ukraine is not part of NATO, so what does that mean? And even if Ukraine joined, is Ukraine not a sovereign country that can decide this themselves? Calling that warmongering is what makes this whole take disingenuous and pro Russia, because it only serves Russian fascism and imperialism.
It was very much trying to be and passed laws to make it a goal of their foreign policy. And they very much are associated with NATO today, otherwise they would never have held out so long.
And sure, they can decide for themselves, and we should have said “Are you mental, Russia is an evil regime that will start a war about this! Why would we want you in our military alliance and provoke war? Did you forget what happened in Georgia?” Instead Stoltenberg said “Sure, why not!”.
The morality of Russia doesn’t even enter into this calculus. If you deliberately ignore the consequence that result in war, while there are other alternatives like not doing a regime change and letting Ukraine stay neutral, how is it not warmongering?
And suppressing this very basic logic and the historical facts and calling it “Russian propaganda” makes any diplomatic solution impossible and endless war inevitable. That is also warmongering.
Are you saying they are not?
Absolutely no one in Europe wants to conquer Russia. We just want to be left the fuck alone from Russian Nazis interfering in our democracy and to leave our neighbours alone.
And the only one twisting historical facts are you, saying the Maidan revolution was a western coup instead of Ukrainians choosing to oust a Russian puppet. This wasn’t some fringe group taking power, it was supported by the majority of Ukrainians.
Poll: More Ukrainians disapprove of EuroMaidan protests than approve of it (Kyiv Post, 2014)
“More than half of the respondents (52%) were for the Euromaidan protests, with only 6% of supporters of then-authorities. A quarter (25%) supported neither authorities nor the opposition and were against any protests in the country.”
2019, 5 years later. But the facts about the funding and NED operations remain the facts. The organizer of the Maidan protests did receive funding and training from the CIA/NED. This does not erase what happened, or how it happened.
Further, the near 50/50 split is very much divided between east and west Ukraine, with the east being more Russian language speaking and aligned. There was serious resistance to this “realignment”. And even western media reported about the nazi problem and violence coming from far right mobs.
Did Russia meddle, contribute to the civil war and illegally invade? Yeah. But this one sided narrative about the history, and the characterization of Russia as some comically evil nazi regime is just nonsense. The CIA/NED openly bragged about their operation that ended with this war.
Again, I’m not pro Russia. But I do understand they have legitimate security concerns. And expanding NATO to Ukraine was warmongering. Because you do not need to be pro Russia to say “If you do X, this actor will react with Y which is very bad. So do not do X”.
You mean the same regime that has kidnapped thousands of Ukrainian children? The same regime that has massacred civilians in occupied Ukrainian territories? The same regime that threatens the world with Nukes every so often? You mean the same regime that poisoned UK citizens with novichok? The regime that is trying to end Democracy in Europe? The one that is murdering any opposition to its rule?
Add to this the rampant ultra nationalism and xenophobia how can you not characterise the Russian regime as fascist?
Ukraine is not part of NATO, so what does that mean? And even if Ukraine joined, is Ukraine not a sovereign country that can decide this themselves? Calling that warmongering is what makes this whole take disingenuous and pro Russia, because it only serves Russian fascism and imperialism.
The only warmonger here is Russia.
It was very much trying to be and passed laws to make it a goal of their foreign policy. And they very much are associated with NATO today, otherwise they would never have held out so long.
And sure, they can decide for themselves, and we should have said “Are you mental, Russia is an evil regime that will start a war about this! Why would we want you in our military alliance and provoke war? Did you forget what happened in Georgia?” Instead Stoltenberg said “Sure, why not!”.
The morality of Russia doesn’t even enter into this calculus. If you deliberately ignore the consequence that result in war, while there are other alternatives like not doing a regime change and letting Ukraine stay neutral, how is it not warmongering?
And suppressing this very basic logic and the historical facts and calling it “Russian propaganda” makes any diplomatic solution impossible and endless war inevitable. That is also warmongering.
I guess it was also the fault of the Allies that Germany attacked Poland in 1939?
You need to get out of your tankie .ml circles. Absolutely insane.